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The Forgotten STAR - 'Toine Watch 07/08

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Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Kannattaa katsastaa, varsinkin haterit.

Antoine Walker, the NBA Champion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYiYAKA3Wo&search=antoinee

Tässä näkee kuinka suuresta pelaajasta on kyse

Ei voi muuta kuin kunnioittaa tätä voittajaa. Kukaan ei välitä, ja kellekkään voittaminen ei ole niin tärkeää kuin tälle miehelle. Todellin atleetti ja loistava esikuva, niin kentällä kuin sen ulkopuolella, niin penkillä kuin pelissä.
 
Viestejä
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Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Fouled out sanoi:
Mies on legenda.
No NIIN on! Kukaan ei kiellä Walkerin ylivoimaisuutta. Jos kieltää, on vaan väärässä. I'm a believer. 'Toine neljä ikinä.
 

Tervajoki

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

GheorgheMuresan sanoi:
Mutta jos Walker on tuo hehkuttamasi supertähti, missä on kilinä-kilinä sormesta?(mestaruus)

Sormessa?
 

Katotaa aamul

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

No Walker sai sitten mestaruutensa, onneksi olkoon. Katsoin jokaisen finaalin, ja täytyy sanoa, että olen positiivisesti yllättynyt miehen peliin. Walker oli oikeasti ainoa Heatissä joka tajusi pelata Shaqin kautta JOKA kerta. O'Neal on iso, ja häntä tulee käyttää paljon ja aikaisin, Wade pääsee kyllä peliin mukaan, mutta O'Neal on saatava mukaan heti, sen Walker tajusi. Yllättäviä vaikeuksia muuten kenellä tahansa joka Walkeria puolusti. Nopeat jalat kaverilla, vaikka ei fyysiikka ehkä antaisi sitä olettaa. Yksi enigmaattisimmista pelaajista liigassa, no question about it. Vittu, oli kyllä helmeä nähdä shimmyn paluu myös, olihan se jopa aikoinaan videopeleihin malliinnettu :)

Ei siinä mitään, Walker tokana pisteissä finaaleissa heti Waden jälkeen. Walker on pelaaja joka tuo erittäin paljon plussaa pöytään, mutta ihmiset näkevät vain miinukset. Oli muistaakseni Pat Riley joka sanoi että ilman Walkeria mestaruutta ei olisi koskaan saavutettu, Shaqin tarkoitteassa että Walker on x-factor, se ratkaiseva tekijä, se voiton ja häviön välinen pelaaja.

"Without him, we don't win"
 

link

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker


Shedding baggage for trip to Finals

Antoine Walker, who went from star to nomad, has repaid Pat Riley's faith in him with hard work, consistency and grit.


In Boston, one person in particular didn't want Antoine Walker's leadership or his shot selection. Dallas didn't need his offense. Atlanta simply didn't want him.

Heat president Pat Riley, who would later return as coach, wanted offense, someone who could provide it off the bench while subjugating his ego enough to be at best the third star in a two-star offense. He wanted Antoine Walker.

''Say what?'' snapped the NBA followers who didn't think Walker could essay a Rosencrantz or Guildenstern role when he had so recently wanted to be the Hamlet in each team's play. And he certainly still shot like it.

It turns out that Riley not only got what he wanted, he got what he needed. So did Walker, in the NBA Finals for the first time in his career, a career that went from stable in Boston to Walker quickly accruing frequent mover miles over two seasons.

Boston to Dallas, right before the 2003-04 season. Ten months later, Dallas to Atlanta. Atlanta back to Boston in a surprising trade late last season.

NO HARD FEELINGS

All of them let him go (once by Walker's request). But in none of those places did Walker, a 6-9 forward who can hit from anywhere this side of the time line, feel underappreciated.

''Not at all,'' Walker said. ``I had a great time in Boston. Obviously, you play for the team that drafted you, you'd love to finish your career there. I got an opportunity to go back there and finish that up. Dallas was a good year for me. The Atlanta situation was just a pit stop. They were going young.''

Finally, to Miami.

''Antoine has been great here,'' Riley said. ``The hardest worker. Never missed a practice, never missed a game. He's always laced them up. He wants to compete as much as anybody. Whatever reputation he had before, I never thought that we were going to have a problem with him.

``It was all about whether or not he was a volume shooter more than anything else. And I like volume shooters. When they go in.''

Danny Ainge didn't mind so much that Walker was a gunner but felt that too much of Walker's game came from the perimeter, considering his size and moves. Once Ainge was recruited from the broadcast chair to being Boston's executive director of basketball operations, he dealt Walker to Dallas in a five-player deal a week before the 2003-04 season.

In explaining the trade of a seven-year veteran and Celtics co-captain, Ainge reportedly told the media that Walker's leadership ''stifled'' other players' leadership and had a ''grasp'' on the Celtics franchise that wasn't ``a positive thing.''

Walker pointed out, ``Look at Boston, look at me right now. Last time I checked, I don't think Boston's had that great a record since I've been gone.''

TOO MANY SCORERS

Walker's one season in Dallas saw him average 14 points, a career low. That wasn't the result of bad shooting -- he hit 42.8 percent, the second-best shooting percentage of his first eight seasons -- but good teammates.

Between Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley with Antawn Jamison coming off the bench, the Mavericks' only offensive problem was getting everyone involved.

''I went to [owner] Mark Cuban,'' Walker said. ``It was a contract year. Me, Antawn Jamison, Dirk all played the same position. I just asked if they would move me on.''

Just six months after Dallas granted Walker's request, Ainge caused all of New England to choke on its chowder by trading for Walker. In the package going the other way to Atlanta was current Heat teammate Gary Payton. Both wound up with the Heat, having to fit themselves into a team on the rise, bringing with them questions about how they would affect team chemistry.

''That was [the media] that said that,'' Walker said. ``A lot of things that go on within a team -- what you guys believe and what we believe are totally different. I didn't think twice about that. I just came in to play basketball. I can play with any team in the league. I'm a basketball player. It doesn't matter.''


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Mitä opimmekaan tästä? 'Toine = Sormuksia. Miami oli viime vuonna kova, mutta Walkerin tuoma johtajuus, taistelutahto, sydän ja taito, lisättynä loistavaan pelikäsitykseen ja oveluuteen, toi mestaruuden. Miamin kaupunki on kiitollisuuden velassa, Walker osoitti olevansa voittaja, jälleen kerran.

NCAA & NBA champion, perhaps future Hall of Famer,

Antoine Walker
 

Tervajoki

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

img9517816.jpg


Antoine Devon Walker

    NBA champion
 

Employee #8

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

The Destiny has been fulfilled.

Yksi kaikkien aikojen aliarvostetuimmista pelaajista on viimeinkin saanut uralleen ansaitsemansa kruunun. Antoine Walker on osoittanut maailmalle jälleen kerran olevansa yksi liigan monipuolisimmista isoista miehistä, sekä keskitason palloilijan sijaan todellinen franchise-tason pelaaja. Luulisi vihdoin myös niin kutsuttujen "haterien", joita tältäkin foorumilta valitettavasti löytyy, uskovan, että Walkerilla on kuin onkin kyky pelata hyvin ratkaisupeleissä ja johdattaa joukkueensa jopa aina korkeimmalle korokkeelle asti. Myös puheet huonoista heitonvalinnoista ja "joukkueen saastuttamisesta" voidaan heittää romukoppaan. Kuten Pat Riley sanoi, ei tätä mestaruutta olisi voitettu ilman 'Toinea.

Kiitos Antoine menneistä kausista ja kaikista niistä hienoista hetkistä joista olemme saaneet kanssasi nauttia, kirsikkana kakun päällä tietysti upea mestaruus Shaqin ja Waden rinnalla. Kääntäkäämme nyt katseet kohti tulevaisuutta ja tulevia mestaruusjuhlia 2007. Go Heat! Go 'Toine!

arton21231-240x240.jpg
 

Wallyworld

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Tuli vaan mieleen...

Onhan tuo Walker hyvä pelaaja. Bob Cousy . . . Bill Russell . . . John Havlicek . . . Larry Bird . . . Antoine Walker. Katsokaa tuota nimilistaa. Mikä yhdistää näitä pelaajia? Kyllä, kaikki ovat legendoja, mutta myös Celticsin kapteeneja. Walker on aina ollut erittäin kovan vertailun ja arvostelun kohteena, koko elämänsä, niin kentällä kuin sen ulkopuolella, niin pelin aikana, kuin sen jälkeen, ja silti hän seisoo voittajana tällä hetkellä. Mies, joka on saanut niin paljon paskaa niskaansa, ja silti vetänyt itsensä ylös, ja osoittanut olevansa voittaja myös NBA-tasolla, on erittäin arvostettava saavutus. Miehestä ei voi olla tykkäämättä, yksi sympaattisimmista NBA-pelaajista varmasti, mutta hänen pelinsä on yksi koripalloilun suurimmista kysymysmerkeistä, ainakin oli. Nyt, ainakin tällä hetkellä, tämä kysymysmerkki on yhtä kuin voittaminen. Walker on aina saanut kunnioitusta siinä mielessä, että palkkaa hän on kerännyt enemmän kuin Fortumin optiovoittajat, ja All-Star pelejä on takana myös kiitettävä määrä. NCAA ja NBA mestaruus painavat kuitenkin eniten vaakakupissa, eikä mikään ihme, eihän koriksen idea ole rahan tienaaminen tai All-Star ottelut. Tilanne Walkerin kohdalla on kuitenkin seuraava:
NBA mestaruus
NCAA mestaruus
Lukuisat All-Star ottelut
Paljon hyväntekeväisyyttä (8foundation ynnä muu...)
Todella kovan luokan palkka
jne jne

Eli kun nyt vertaillaan Walkeria ns "parempia" pelaajia kapteeniin, niin onko hän oikeasti niin huono pelaaja kuin ihmiset haluavat uskoa? Sanoisin ettei näin ole. Aina voi olla sitä mieltä, että joku on huono pelaaja, mutta faktat ovat faktaa, ja sitä on Walkerilla laittaa pöytään tällä hetkellä enemmän kuin tarpeeksi todistaakseen kuuluvansa tämän sukupolven supertähtiin.

Näin se vain on, anteeksi jos loukkaan tällä jotakuta.
 

employee#00

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Juhlikaa nyt, kun olette sen todella ansainneet. Pitäkää kuitenkin edelleen se järki kädessä...

Walker ei vieläkään ole franchise-tason ultra-mega-hyper-yeahbeibi-superstar. Hän keskinkertainen pelaaja hyvässä joukkueessa, joka pelasi hyvät pudotuspelit.

Antoine Walkeria ja listaa Cousy, Havlicek, Russel, Bird ei yhdistä mikään muu kuin NCAA- ja NBA-mestaruus ja Boston Celtics. Walkerilla on mestaruuksia kumpiakin yksi. On rikos liittää Walker "tasavertaisena" tuohon listaan. Mitä kaikkea Walkerilta taas puuttuu, se on jo pitkä lista: Olympiakulta, NBA-mestaruus kertaa X, MVP-valinnat, Naismith yms. -valinnat, Finals MVP-valinnat, All NBA -team valinnat ja ennenkaikkea TAIDOT, jotta hänet voitaisiin laittaa tuohon listaan.

'Toine = Sormuksia?? Jep, jep... Eipä siis pidä katsoa NBA:ta enää. Tiedossa on siis Heatin varma mestaruus ja Il Capitanon dominoiva kausi, jolloin hän näyttää koko maailmalle olevansa paras. Parempi kuin Bird, Malone, Duncan, Shaq, Russell ja joku vitun Kobe...

Tosiasiahan on, että Antoine Walkerista on jo parhaat päivät nähty. Hyviä hetkiä hänelle (ja samalla teille) tulee ja hyvä niin. Mutta supertähteä Walkerista ei tee mikään muu, kuin supertähteyden edellyttämä pelaaminen. Sitä ei ole 3rd or 4th option sidekickinä oleminen kahdelle todelliselle supertähdelle.
 

Coles

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Ymmärtääkseni Antoine Walker ei ole mikään sidekick/roolipelaaja...

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The question was innocuous enough, something about the Heat's "supporting cast" and whether it could take sufficient pressure off the Diesel/Flash glamour combo in these NBA Finals.

"Who's the supporting cast?" Walker shot back Saturday afternoon at the American Airlines Center. "I'm just a player, man. I ain't no supporting cast. I don't characterize myself as that."

"I'm not a supporting cast," he added. "I'm Antoine Walker, the basketball player."

"We have the most dominant player in the middle and we have a talented 2-guard," he continued. "Of course we're going to run 70 to 80 percent of our plays for those guys. But `supporting cast' to me kind of downgrades players on a team. The words `supporting cast,' I just don't like."

"I'm not a supporting nothing," he said. "I'm part of 15-strong. A team."

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Eli nuo 3rd, 4th option, sidekick, supporting cast jutut voidaan lopettaa samantien.
 

kuuba

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Iso perse walkerilla ainaki on...paikan päällä nähtynä...laiskasti juoksee, mut jotenki se vaan tekee hyvää duunia. uskomaton heitto ja pelitaju
 

Toine

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Kiitos tästä kaudesta. Kapteeni, olet sankarini!
 

Tervajoki

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Kaverilla on pari hyvää pointtia, ihan hyvää matskua, toki vanhaa, mutta silti käypä artikkeli, varsinkin jos otetaan huomioon täällä aikasemmin käydyt keskustelut.

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HoopsHype.com Columns

Why is 'Toine gone?
by Chad Finn / October 20, 2003


Danny Ainge is regarded as a sharp guy, eager, versatile, successful in every sports endeavor he's attempted other than hitting a curveball.


So it comes as a shock that the Boston Celtics' first-year director of basketball operations so blatantly violated one of the most basic tenets of running a professional sports franchise:

You don't trade your best players. You build around them.

There is no subtle way to put it. Ainge's decision to trade 27-year-old three-time All-Star forward Antoine Walker to the Dallas Mavericks for 27-year-old perennial underachiever Raef LaFrentz immediately ranks as one of the most shortsighted, ill-advised, downright stupid trades in franchise history.

Oh, right. The Celtics also gave up veteran guard Tony Delk while acquiring second-year guard Jiri Welsch, roster fodder Chris Mills and a first-round pick in the swap. But they were mere extras in this movie.

This deal is 'Toine for Raef. And it is utterly inexplicable. No matter how you twist it and turn it, it makes no sense from Boston's angle.

It's not about the money. Walker has two years and $28 million left on his contract. LaFrentz is owed six years and $62 million.

It's certainly not about production. LaFrentz averages 12.2 points, 7.1 rebounds and 1.1 assists in his career. That's roughly eight points, two rebounds and three assists fewer per game than Walker.

So what is it about? We can only come to one conclusion: Ainge made the trade in a transparent attempt to make his mark on the franchise.

It certainly worked. Congratulations, Danny. Five months on the job, and you've already accomplished the impossible. You've made Rick Pitino look shrewd.

Naturally, Ainge was down in a defensive stance during a press conference Monday. He compared getting LaFrentz to getting the Celtics Robert Parish in 1980. (If I'm the Chief today, I'm seriously insulted at my former teammate's lack of respect.) He mentioned Welsch's "upside." He noted that Walker's field-goal percentage has declined for three consecutive seasons, and he insinuated that Walker's skills are in decline as well.

Ainge also repeatedly reiterated his primary motivation for making the deal. He is convinced that the Walker-Paul Pierce tandem had taken the Celtics as far as they could go. "I felt like we needed to this now," Ainge said. "I just didn't see Walker and Pierce taking us to an Eastern title, let alone an NBA championship. Their time had run it's course."

Okay, maybe it had. The Celtics took one small step backward last year, losing in the Eastern Conference semifinals to the New Jersey Nets, the same team that knocked them out in the Eastern finals the previous season. It certainly was a disappointing demise.

But most likely it hadn't. In fact, one could argue that the Celtics' time remained in the present. There are 29 teams in the NBA. The Celtics made the final four two years ago. They made final eight last year and had a better team coming into this season than the one that ended last season.

Without drastic roster turnover, the Celtics improved in the offseason. I wouldn't be so foolish as to expect you to believe it until you see it for yourself, but Vin Baker is looking and playing like he's five years younger. During Saturday night's exhibition game versus the Pacers, he spun baseline and threw down one-handed dunk. Had he attempted such a maneuver a season ago, he would have ended up throwing the ball off the bottom of the rim. Hard to believe, but Baker may be back to his old form.

Others may help as well. Rookie point guard Marcus Banks is the quickest player in the East not named Iverson. Jumaine Jones was born to play in Jim O'Brien's newly implemented fast-break offense. Guard Mike James is more suited to run than plodding predecessor JR Bremer.

And they had Walker and Pierce. As long as the dynamic young duo remained in green and white, the Celtics at least could daydream about championship banner No. 17. Few teams had such a capable two-man nucleus. Pierce is 26, a year younger than Walker. The two stars respected each other, complemented each other, kept each other in check.

Don't underestimate the importance of this. The NBA graveyard is filled with promising teams murdered by the egos of incompatible superstars. McGrady and Carter in Toronto, Marbury and Garnett in Minnesota, Kidd, Mashburn and Jackson in Dallas.

Now, no matter how many jumpers LaFrentz hits or how well Baker has rehabilitated his life and his game, the burden to carry the offense falls squarely on Pierce's thin shoulders. No doubt he will do his best to rise to the challenge, but it will not be easy without the versatile Walker to ease his burden.

It is relentlessly frustrating to think that the Celtics are preparing to waste Pierce's prime. But it sure feels that way today.

There simply was no need for Ainge to slam the panic button with both fists. As he will come to find out as he watches Pierce get hammered and hacked back to earth while trying to fly solo night after night, the Celtics problem was never their two stars. The problem was everyone else. Consider the six-man rotation O'Brien was forced to go with in the waning moments of Game 4 of last season's Eastern Conference semifinals loss to the Nets after Walker had fouled out:

A valiant but spent Pierce; Delk, who in his finest moments is a poor imitation of Vinnie Johnson; Eric Williams who is tough, gritty and just not very good; Mark Blount, who looks startled every time the ball sticks to his stone hands; Bimbo Coles; and Grant Long.

Not exactly the Showtime Lakers there, eh? Perhaps that's the cruelest irony of all: Just when they may have had the supporting cast, the Pierce and Walker Show was canceled.

Listen, even the most ardent Walker fan will admit it might -- might -- have have been worth trading him for a quality point guard and a skilled post-player in return. But that's not what they got.

They got LaFrentz, who has carried a well-deserved a reputation as a softie since his undergrad days at Kansas. He too often plays like the slight evolution of Brad Lohaus.

They got Welsch, who while at least intriguing, hasn't been able to beat out rookie Josh Howard for the backup shooting guard gig behind Michael Finley in Dallas.

Know what else they got? Worse.

Listen, in praising Walker, I don't mean to present him as a flawless ballplayer. He is not. Some will tell you he heaves up too many ill-advised threes, that he yaps at the refs and has terrible body language. There is some truth to the accusations.

Others claim he's selfish. That accusation could not be farther from the truth.

Selfish? Funny, but his former teammates always chose much more respectful words when talking about Walker.

"He's a great leader," said Eric Williams last season. "No matter what anybody says about him as far as his attitude and what he says to the referees and the way he plays basketball, in this locker room he's a great leader. Every guy here will give their all for that guy. He just wants the best for himself and this team, and that's all you can ask for in a teammate and a friend."

I'm afraid Ainge, perhaps in a haste to turn this into his team, too easily dismissed all that Walker does well. The pretty passes out of double-team, his willingness to bear the ballhandling burden, that relentless enthusiasm on the fifth game of a mid-January road swing.

Walker, a basketball junkie of the highest order, took pride in playing for a franchise with so much tradition. Williams said his friend was devastated by the trade. But getting out of Boston might be the best thing for him. Playing with the talented, freewheeling Mavs will bring out his best attributes. No forward will pile up more SportsCenter-worthy assists than Walker in the new season.

While Mavericks fans will enjoy the newest toy in Mark Cuban's collection, Celtics fans are left to somberly reflect on the day they unknowingly said their final goodbye.

In the fourth and final game of their playoff loss to the Nets last spring, Walker played his heart out. He filled the boxscore with 20 points, nine rebounds, six assists and five steals before fouling out in the first overtime.

As he headed for the sideline, the FleetCenter faithful gave him a standing ovation. Then, from the bench, he led the cheers for the overmatched misfit brigade.

Even when things looked their bleakest, there was never any quit in Antoine Walker.

Mark these words: Danny Ainge will regret the day he quit on him.

Chad Finn is an award-winning sports columnist and a regular contributor to HoopsHype.com
 

valkkeri

Re: The Forgotten STAR - Antoine "The Captain" Walker

Kiitos tästä kaudesta.
 
Jotta voit kirjoittaa viestejä, sinun täytyy rekisteröityä foorumille. Rekisteröityminen on ilmaista, helppoa ja nopeaa. Rekisteröidy tästä.
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